USD College Republicans

Wednesday Feb 27, 2008

What is a libertarian?

Another great Boudreaux post

It will hopefully give insight into what a libertarian actually is, so that those who debate me will stop calling me a conservative.

----
What's the single biggest way that collectivists misunderstand or misinterpret free-market liberals (such as Russ and myself)? The answer, I bet, is the failure to understand that opposition by free-market liberals to government action does not mean that we free-market liberals oppose all of the goals of the well-meaning proponents of government action.

More generally, it seems difficult for some people to grasp the fact that society and government are not identical -- or, more precisely, to grasp the fact that civil society can and does often thrive outside of government influence and, indeed, very often (I would say most often) in spite of such influence.

A friend of mine who is a thoughtful and very intelligent man of the left asked me by e-mail -- in response to this post at the Cafe --

But don't libertarians, or at least some of them, see themselves as part of a movement? I admit that I've always thought that was something of a paradox. But maybe even libertarians can't free themselves from human nature, so much of which evolved, as you point out, when humans, and our ancestors, hunted and gathered in packs. But, for that matter, isn't much productive economic activity carried out collectively by corporate groups?

Good questions. Here's my response:

There is a libertarian intellectual movement, of course. And I admit that I feel deep gratification whenever I reflect that in some small way I work within a tradition enriched, and more or less consciously embraced, by people such as Adam Smith, Frederic Bastiat, Mencken, Hayek, Milton Friedman, Jim Buchanan, and Vernon [Smith].

There is also a libertarian political movement, but it is notoriously undisciplined. (I've gone to a total of two Libertarian-party gatherings. The first was in 1979 in New Orleans -- dull. The second was in 1980 in NYC. At this latter event, the Libertarians decided very ostentatiously to support the Man-Boy Love Association. I thought this a bit much.)

I suppose that it is somewhat ironic that the classical-liberal and libertarian movement (perhaps a better word is "tradition") does prominently deny the myth that there's salvation in the political collective. More specifically, this tradition denies three myths that many people still doggedly believe: (1) that useful social and economic orders only result from of a conscious plan and effort -- or can invariably be improved by such conscious planning and effort; (2) that the nation is economically and morally special - that each of us has a special connection (and should have a special connection) with each and every one of our fellow citizens that we don't have with citizens of other countries; and (3) that personal pursuit of material gain is suspect or, at least, contemptible -- that it's always better to aim for "higher" purposes -- to sacrifice ourselves for others or for some cause that is "larger" than the individual.

About your point regarding private firms: it's true that nearly all private, productive economic activity takes place in organizations consisting of some, often very many, people. It's true also that people often feel loyalty to the organizations they work for or or are otherwise closely associated with. But the motivating force of such organizations in a market economy isn't chiefly these small-scale collective purposes (any one of which is often at odds with the collective purpose of some other organization). The motivating force is individual profit. And, importantly, people are usually aware of this fact, and so they're not duped into sacrificing themselves for others. Gains from trade, rather than commitment to a nebulous higher cause, is the chief motive.

One of the important influences on my thinking about this broad topic is a 1962 essay by Hayek called "Two Kinds of Order." If you ever run across this essay, I do recommend it.
----
-Matt Hittle

Comments:

Are there many other Classical Liberals in the College Republicans? I'm definitely not a Republican but I'd like the Party to go back to some libertarian values.

Just curious

Posted by Peter Conley on February 27, 2008 at 05:02 PM CST #

As far as I know, I'm the only open classical liberal who actively participates in College Republicans. The others are friends- they agree with us, but don't want to fully endorse the Republican Party.

I think that any third party libertarian group will be looked at as crazies by the public, so I'm like you in the fact that I want to change the party. That's why I'm a member- so I can bring the party back to it's core values of limited government and increased freedom.

Posted by Matt Hittle on February 27, 2008 at 05:05 PM CST #

I actually agree with both of you. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, count me in. I just lean more towards socially liberal.

Posted by Dan Smart on February 27, 2008 at 08:29 PM CST #

Of course, the fiscal conservatism means lower taxes, no backward social programs (Social Security, etc) and no universal health care.

On social issues, I think a good libertarian stance is "I don't care." That's mine, really. It goes like this: " Oh, you say that you want to say a prayer in school? I don't care. You say that you DON'T want to pray in school? I don't care. You're gay? I don't care. You're straight? I don't care."

The way other people exercise their freedoms is none of my business, nor do I want it to be. As long, of course, as it doesn't infringe upon someone else's freedom.

Posted by Matt Hittle on February 28, 2008 at 09:13 AM CST #

I agree with most of what you said, except the whole prayer in school. I believe in the separation of church and state too much. This of course depends on what you mean by prayer in school. I would be opposed to a mandated time for prayer in school, praying out loud or something along those lines. I would not be opposed to someone praying as long as it didn't impose upon others.

Posted by Dan Smart on February 28, 2008 at 07:16 PM CST #

If you're going to go with the first amendments "congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment for religion"- then I agree that there shouldn't be mandated time for prayer in public schools. But, I think people tend to forget the line right after that which states - "nor prohibit the free exercise thereof"- so I can't see justification in not allowing someone to pray openly, as long as it doesn't interfere with learning.

To Matt, do you feel that the Republican majority no longer espouses fiscal conservatism? I mean Bush has cut taxes sure, but he's spent way more than Clinton or Carter. Does anyone talk about that?

But, I think I'm interested in sitting in a meeting or two, do you take late stragglers?

Posted by Peter Conley on February 28, 2008 at 09:02 PM CST #

I personally believe that the Republican Party (we're no longer in the majority) as a whole has forsaken its fiscal conservatism. We're adopting a Christian populism that has arisen from the ever-present Evangelical Christians.

The prayer in schools was just an example. I'm just saying that, as a libertarian, I could care less about social issues- as long as someone isn't infringing on another's freedom.

As far as the meeting, by all means, we'd love to have you visit! Wednesday nights, 8pm, Old Main 118.

Posted by Matt Hittle on February 28, 2008 at 11:06 PM CST #

I am more in favor of the other side, because I believe the current republican party to be a slap in the face to personal freedom. I would rather be poor and free than rich and have less freedom.

Posted by Dan Smart on March 03, 2008 at 12:36 PM CST #

Well, not one said that Bush is great. We're Republican, but we don't necessarily toe the party line. Sure, I wish Bush would've privatized Social Security, shrank government, etc, but he didn't.
That makes it our duty to see that the Republican party is put back on its fiscally conservative tracks.

Posted by Matt Hittle on March 03, 2008 at 03:31 PM CST #

Post a Comment:
  • HTML Syntax: Allowed

Calendar

Feeds

Search

Links

Navigation

Referrers